The revelation of a midlife ADHD diagnosis, with Claire Tomkins

[00:00:00] Earlier this year, I got a call from one of my BFFs.

[00:00:03] Hi Claire!

[00:00:05] Hi Golda!

[00:00:09] Claire and I have been besties for a long time.

[00:00:12] Our kids are the same age and are now in college, but we first met when they were in preschool, back when I was living in London.

[00:00:21] Ours is one of those friendships that has somehow survived distance and time.

[00:00:25] And with the passing of time, of course there's one thing that we regularly talk about when we catch up.

[00:00:35] We're women of a certain age, so no surprise, we talk menopause.

[00:00:40] We usually commiserate, laugh, swap disaster stories and move on.

[00:00:46] But this call was different.

[00:00:49] So one of the key things about perimenopause, you know, there's always a joke on Insta or Facebook,

[00:00:56] who's that friend that, you know, can't find their phone in their bag.

[00:01:00] This is from a conversation that I recorded later.

[00:01:03] I've always lost things, you know, I'm not going to misplace them and then find them later.

[00:01:08] I remember I put my purse, my wallet down somewhere, and I couldn't, I thought,

[00:01:15] oh, what have I done with my wallet?

[00:01:17] So I looked for it and I went into my bedroom and I couldn't remember the colour of my wallet.

[00:01:24] So not only did I not know where it was, I didn't know what it looked like.

[00:01:28] I thought I've got dementia.

[00:01:29] Yeah, I thought I've got dementia.

[00:01:31] Yeah, that's it.

[00:01:32] Yeah, my God, that's what I would have thought.

[00:01:34] I thought, OK, this is me, Alzheimer's, it's coming.

[00:01:37] Yeah, because yeah, you can lose things, can't you?

[00:01:39] But to forget what they look like.

[00:01:41] So yeah, lots of things like brain straining to remember where things are or what people are called.

[00:01:48] And that was part of me feeling like I was going mad.

[00:01:52] I've always thought there's something wrong with me, but those symptoms in perimenopause really heightened that there's got to be something else.

[00:01:59] And it turns out there was something else.

[00:02:05] Claire has ADHD, a diagnosis that came in her early 50s.

[00:02:09] It was a surprise when she told me and it took me a minute to process it.

[00:02:14] But it also explained a bunch of things, which Claire and I talked more about in this episode.

[00:02:20] So ADHD, as we may all know or not know, is so underdiagnosed in women just for so many reasons.

[00:02:28] And I think two main reasons. One of them is the way women cover up.

[00:02:33] And then tied to that is that ADHD is easily diagnosed or easier in men, boys.

[00:02:42] So all the information that the medical industry has gathered are all based on the male experience.

[00:02:48] And it presents differently in men and women.

[00:02:50] And so one of them is that restlessness, fidgeting that you often think about when you think about like a six year old with ADHD is running around like he's on a sugar high.

[00:03:01] So that's more of a male thing, whereas I've still got that.

[00:03:05] But mine's up here. That's my brain doing the never stopping running around like a maniac.

[00:03:11] So all these things weren't necessarily recognized that the restlessness or the craziness is not a physical thing.

[00:03:17] It's actually a mental thing.

[00:03:18] So this is one of the key reasons for men's diagnosed because we're just thinking about symptoms and how it presents in men.

[00:03:25] It's different.

[00:03:28] This is Overlooked, and I'm Golda Arthur.

[00:03:31] In this episode, you'll hear a conversation between me and my friend Claire Tompkins about ADHD in women and her story about how she was diagnosed and how that diagnosis changed her life.

[00:03:44] I met Claire in person when I was in London earlier this year, and she agreed to tell her story on the podcast.

[00:03:53] I started by asking her what went through her mind when she first found out about the ADHD diagnosis.

[00:04:00] It was like my initial reaction was sadness, maybe tinged with a bit of shame.

[00:04:09] Oh God, there's something wrong with me.

[00:04:11] You know, that's just how I felt about myself.

[00:04:13] That's a very personal feeling.

[00:04:15] Oh, there is something wrong with me.

[00:04:18] And then I did cry.

[00:04:21] I did cry.

[00:04:21] And then once that wore off, I was like, well, that's good.

[00:04:25] All these things I've been feeling, and I didn't know what was...

[00:04:29] I don't want to use the word wrong with me, but why I was like I was.

[00:04:32] There's an explanation for it, and I then felt relief, and it made me understand myself a little better.

[00:04:38] Tell me how it came about.

[00:04:41] So I had depression on and off.

[00:04:46] I definitely had postnatal depression, and that was when it was first diagnosed.

[00:04:52] And then I had treatment for that, and I was fine.

[00:04:56] And then when I had my second child, the depression was a lot worse, but my depression did go on for a while.

[00:05:03] It used to come and go, and then when I split up from my husband, it was really bad then,

[00:05:09] and I actually went through some counselling, a lot of counselling, and that was really helpful.

[00:05:15] So I had a psychiatric assessment and lots more therapy,

[00:05:19] and sort of one of the things that came out in the therapy was that,

[00:05:24] I'm simplifying it, but all my problems were linked to low self-esteem,

[00:05:30] which is one of the key things with people with ADHD.

[00:05:34] There's different types of ADHD, how it manifests, and there's a few different reasons,

[00:05:39] but it often goes hand in hand with clinical depression, low self-esteem.

[00:05:43] And then, rather bizarrely, this low self-esteem is linked to being bullied at a young age.

[00:05:50] And I was bullied from when I was three to when I was five, and that played a big part in my life.

[00:05:55] And I hadn't realised, and I'd brushed it under the carpet for years, and that all came out.

[00:06:01] And then really, it was my therapist that sort of suggested that there was something else,

[00:06:06] I don't want to use the word wrong with me, something else going on.

[00:06:10] So she gave me a test to do, an ADHD test.

[00:06:15] I'm calling it a test, so it's lots of different scenarios.

[00:06:18] And what was that like?

[00:06:19] So it was, they'd give you a scenario.

[00:06:23] It was in different parts, but one of them was a scenario, this happens, what's your reaction?

[00:06:28] How did you feel?

[00:06:29] Then once you've answered that, it goes through to another layer of the same sort of question.

[00:06:34] Then there's things about how do you feel about yourself?

[00:06:37] And as I was going through, I was like, oh, that's me.

[00:06:40] Yeah, that's me.

[00:06:42] Oh, wow, that's me.

[00:06:43] Oh, that's me.

[00:06:44] I was almost like, you don't need to add it up.

[00:06:45] My therapist couldn't diagnose me officially because that's not her trade.

[00:06:51] So she referred me to my GP, who also ran some other tests.

[00:06:54] I can't remember how it's worded, but basically I've got ADHD.

[00:06:58] And then you have to be referred to, I think it's a psychiatrist or something.

[00:07:03] This is how it works in the UK or works around here.

[00:07:06] I don't know if it's the same everywhere.

[00:07:08] The first prescription for medications and treatment plans and things like that.

[00:07:12] And then after that, you come under like your GP.

[00:07:15] But I'm still waiting for that to happen because over here, there's a long wait list.

[00:07:21] But people are really aware of mental health's a big thing now and everyone's talking about it.

[00:07:25] So a lot more people are being diagnosed because they're just aware of how they're feeling.

[00:07:29] And it's a good thing.

[00:07:31] But there's this sort of other thing that goes with it where it's fashionable now to have ADHD.

[00:07:37] You know, everyone seems to be diagnosed and it really, you know, it's a pain because with someone with it and it's lived with it.

[00:07:45] You don't want to live with it.

[00:07:46] You don't want to, you know, oh, I'm so trendy now.

[00:07:49] I've got some new Adidas Gazelle trainers and I've got ADHD, you know.

[00:07:53] So it's not, that bugs me.

[00:07:56] That bugs me a lot.

[00:07:57] And it's just, it's a good thing that people are diagnosed because, you know, they're getting the treatment or even if they decide not to have a treatment plan, you're aware of it.

[00:08:06] And it's an explanation for the things that you've done or things that you felt.

[00:08:11] It's not a reason or excuse.

[00:08:12] It is that explanation of who you are.

[00:08:14] And that's kind of a comfort.

[00:08:16] Tell me about how you were told the diagnosis.

[00:08:19] Oh, yeah, that was on text, text message.

[00:08:22] You were sent a text message.

[00:08:23] I was sent a text message.

[00:08:24] What did it say?

[00:08:27] Congratulations.

[00:08:29] I think it just said, following your previous test, you have identified as ADHD or something.

[00:08:38] It's all very much you've got to push it yourself.

[00:08:41] Yeah.

[00:08:41] And if you've got ADHD and depression or just ADHD, the last thing that you'll really, one of your skills is not to push things yourself.

[00:08:49] You just can't.

[00:08:50] And it's not a laziness.

[00:08:51] It's just the way your mind works.

[00:08:53] So there's a bit of a gap.

[00:08:55] So give me an example of what it explained or what it helped you to understand.

[00:09:00] Like, is there one thing that you would do regularly or that you did that now you look back on it and you think, oh, I get it now.

[00:09:09] That's why I did what I did.

[00:09:10] Whereas at the time it didn't make sense.

[00:09:12] So for me, one of the big things, and it's present in many ADHD, fellow ADHDers, is impulse control.

[00:09:22] So whether that's things I say without, I've got no filter, really no filter naturally.

[00:09:30] You probably may have picked up on this.

[00:09:32] Here and there.

[00:09:35] So impulse control in everything, things I do, things I say.

[00:09:42] And I look back and I cringe.

[00:09:44] And I mean, there's been lots of incidents.

[00:09:48] But there was one incident.

[00:09:49] I was working in Australia.

[00:09:51] It was a contract role.

[00:09:53] We were for settlements for ANZ Bank and they were moving their office and we were there to help with the debt side of it and move over.

[00:10:01] And we just finished.

[00:10:03] It was a graduate thing, but there were lots of, we were in Australia and lots of people that had families or came from all over the world.

[00:10:11] So you weren't allowed to make calls out, international calls out.

[00:10:15] And there was only one phone in the whole department that you could and that was attached to the fax machine.

[00:10:21] So I decided at that moment, they brought out the beers and stuff.

[00:10:24] I decided that I'd take my beer into the confidential room where the fax machine was and call my dad.

[00:10:32] So obviously the guy caught me, came round and he said, you know, I love you.

[00:10:39] You're brilliant.

[00:10:39] And you're really good at your job and everything about you is fantastic.

[00:10:42] And we were rolling out, going to roll out a second session.

[00:10:45] If I hadn't caught you doing that, you would have been on it, but I can't.

[00:10:49] And when he left, he said, you've got this impulse thing.

[00:10:54] There's something in your, you know, I see it in you.

[00:10:56] And I just used to think, oh, he's so boring and why are people so boring?

[00:11:00] There's lots of things where I've said something that I felt in my mind and then thought that I shouldn't have.

[00:11:06] And then thought, why are people overreacting, you know?

[00:11:09] And you look back on it and you think, you know, not only did I think that, but I said it out loud, you know?

[00:11:17] And it was more embarrassing for myself.

[00:11:20] I'd say these things and I'd upset people and things like that.

[00:11:23] So what is the diagnosis?

[00:11:25] So it's given you a new level of understanding of why you do what you do, how your mind operates.

[00:11:32] What has changed since the diagnosis or are you doing anything differently?

[00:11:38] So because I've been having CBT therapy to deal with the self-esteem and my impulses.

[00:11:45] So I do think about the situation before.

[00:11:48] If I know it's going to be a tricky situation, I'll think about it before and think to try and be careful.

[00:11:54] And when I'm thinking things now, I think, actually, should I be saying that?

[00:11:58] Or I've interpreted it the wrong way.

[00:12:01] I've catastrophized it or something like that.

[00:12:03] So I can do that a bit more.

[00:12:06] But that's only 80% because if I'm really upset or angry, then I still have that level of lacking of impulse control.

[00:12:14] So in ADHD, often people can't, you know, younger, you see younger children running around physically.

[00:12:20] They can't stop.

[00:12:22] Mine is mentally I can't stop.

[00:12:24] Constant activity is up here and I can't switch that off.

[00:12:29] So that's a constant.

[00:12:31] That is exhausting.

[00:12:32] That is the worst.

[00:12:33] Your mind is racing.

[00:12:34] It's exhausting.

[00:12:35] Yeah.

[00:12:35] Or, you know, 24 hours a day.

[00:12:38] I can't shut it off.

[00:12:39] I can never shut it off.

[00:12:41] That's really exhausting.

[00:12:43] And that does lead me to not be able to relax.

[00:12:45] I can't relax.

[00:12:47] I might sit and watch TV, but I can't.

[00:12:50] I'm not actually relaxing.

[00:12:52] I can watch a program and not remember what's in it because my brain has also been working.

[00:12:56] I mean, it's so interesting because like you're a grown up and you've got responsibilities and your mom.

[00:13:03] And, you know, when we think about it, as you say, in small children, it seems, I mean, of course, when we, you know, when we get our small children diagnosed, it's a big deal.

[00:13:13] But it does seem slightly lower stakes than being an adult with responsibilities and that kind of thing.

[00:13:19] So how does this ADHD diagnosis and being ADHD, what is the interplay between that and like being a mother, for example?

[00:13:31] I have to force myself to be different.

[00:13:34] I didn't know it was ADHD, but I knew I had things.

[00:13:37] I knew I was slightly, the way I approached things was different, you know, impulse control and that sort of thing.

[00:13:42] But I'm very much, these are my children.

[00:13:44] You know, we all shout at our children when we shouldn't, but I'm really mindful that I don't have impulse reactions with them.

[00:13:52] Really, really careful.

[00:13:54] I force myself, which is an interesting thing, isn't it?

[00:13:56] Because I can't force myself with other people.

[00:13:58] And then other things like procrastination, deliberation when you've got ADHD, you can't start something.

[00:14:06] You just really, you just can't start it.

[00:14:08] There's something that happens.

[00:14:09] And once you start things, so I was really always mindful that I did start the housework.

[00:14:15] I did start dinner.

[00:14:16] I wanted them to have, you know, if I was on my own or their dad's, I wouldn't probably cook for myself.

[00:14:23] I wouldn't wash up.

[00:14:23] I wouldn't do anything.

[00:14:24] We just wouldn't force it.

[00:14:25] But as soon as I knew they were coming back or they were at home, then I'd force myself to look like a normal mom, I guess.

[00:14:33] Yeah.

[00:14:34] So we're at that stage in our lives where we're dealing with perimenopause, menopause, all the wonderful things.

[00:14:42] All the wonderful things, yeah.

[00:14:43] And what has been the interplay between that giant shift in hormones and entering like a new stage in our lives and the ADHD?

[00:14:54] I think because I knew that perimenopause was happening to me, then it just, it led to the diagnosis, I guess, because I was delving into my mental health more.

[00:15:08] For me, it was the brain fog, the mood changes, you know, the quick shift in mood, those sort of things that are there in ADHD.

[00:15:20] I suppose I looked at them in more detail than I did for the rest of my life to see what treatment I could have or how I can manage those.

[00:15:27] And then it just sparked up conversations about sort of my mental health generally.

[00:15:33] So it was just overanalyzing myself because so much was going on, which then led to actually there's a reason, there's an explanation.

[00:15:40] So it's kind of interesting that your perimenopause symptoms eventually put you on this path where eventually you got the diagnosis for ADHD.

[00:15:49] Yeah. I think it's because I only had, say one thing wrong with me, when I only had ADHD, that I thought that was just my personality so I could deal with that.

[00:15:59] And then when it's, you add on a layer of depression, you treat the depression.

[00:16:04] And then when you add on perimenopausal symptoms onto that, you just can't, you then become, actually, I can't cope.

[00:16:11] So then you have to look at it.

[00:16:13] You have to look at what's going on in your head.

[00:16:17] So I think when you're younger, you've got more energy, you get on with it, you sort of push it to the background.

[00:16:23] And then it's just adding on these things where I got to the point where I thought I was going mad.

[00:16:27] And I still feel like I'm going mad now, but I just, there's an explanation, but I thought I was going mad every day.

[00:16:32] Is there one thing you can point to where you, where you remember, where you think, yes, that's it, I'm going crazy?

[00:16:38] I think the first time I really felt I was going crazy was the whole wallet.

[00:16:45] So purse, we call it over here, but it's a, it's your wallet.

[00:16:48] And I was going out and I needed to get, take my, obviously take my wallet with me.

[00:17:00] And I couldn't find it.

[00:17:01] And it wasn't in my handbag.

[00:17:03] And it wasn't on the side in the kitchen or the usual places or on the dining table.

[00:17:08] So I went into my bedroom.

[00:17:10] I thought maybe I've left it in there, my bedside table.

[00:17:13] So I went in there and it wasn't in there.

[00:17:15] So I was thinking where, you know, you go through that, where, when did I last see it?

[00:17:20] Then I thought, well, I can't remember what it looks like.

[00:17:24] It suddenly dawned on me.

[00:17:26] And that's, that was horrific.

[00:17:28] I can't remember what my purse, something I look at all the time, all day, every day.

[00:17:33] So then I thought, okay, try and think what color it is.

[00:17:36] At least if you remember what color it is.

[00:17:38] I couldn't remember what color it is, was, what shape it was.

[00:17:42] I could not remember.

[00:17:44] I couldn't remember.

[00:17:45] And I didn't find it at that time.

[00:17:47] I had to, I found it later.

[00:17:50] I'm, I'm going mad.

[00:17:52] I was so scared.

[00:17:53] Maybe I've got Alzheimer's, dementia.

[00:17:59] Ridiculous things like I've got brain tumor.

[00:18:01] Because I get a lot of headaches.

[00:18:03] So all this catastrophizing.

[00:18:05] But I, I was scared.

[00:18:06] Yeah.

[00:18:07] I thought there's something serious.

[00:18:08] Because you can forget where you put your keys, but you can still remember what they

[00:18:11] look like.

[00:18:12] Can't, you know, everyone forgets.

[00:18:13] But not to remember what something looks like that you use often.

[00:18:19] This was before the days where you paid for everything with your phone and that sort

[00:18:23] of thing.

[00:18:23] So you needed your wallet every time you went into a shop.

[00:18:26] Yeah.

[00:18:26] So that scared me to death.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:35] Looking back on things, what, and I shouldn't say looking back because you're right in the

[00:18:40] middle of things.

[00:18:41] Like you have, you still, you're in line to get treatment, right?

[00:18:44] On the NHS.

[00:18:45] Yes.

[00:18:45] And that takes a while here.

[00:18:48] What has been the bright spot in all of this?

[00:18:52] I was actually quite happy that I had a diagnosis and there was a reason for things.

[00:19:00] But now living with it and having no sort of treatment plan at the moment.

[00:19:05] So I'm very frustrated that although I've had a diagnosis and that's great, I haven't,

[00:19:11] I haven't worked out how to get to the next stage.

[00:19:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:36] What do you think has been the most overlooked aspect of all of this?

[00:19:43] And where is that inequality felt most deeply?

[00:19:48] I think it's a generalization with women that often we're given a band-aid because we have

[00:19:59] hormones and periods.

[00:20:00] So a good example is I had actually a heart valve.

[00:20:06] My aortic valve was broken and it had been for a while.

[00:20:09] So what that means is when your heart pumps blood into that area of your heart, it's meant

[00:20:16] to stay in there and the valve closes.

[00:20:18] And then I don't know the ins and outs of why.

[00:20:21] But actually my blood was going back into my body.

[00:20:24] So I had really bad anemia.

[00:20:25] And I'd been to the doctors and they just said, well, you have, it's just because you

[00:20:30] have hairy periods.

[00:20:31] They didn't explore it.

[00:20:33] They never once explored it.

[00:20:36] And so I was anemic because of that.

[00:20:39] And then, so there was a similar story with my daughter.

[00:20:42] She's very young.

[00:20:43] She's 17 now.

[00:20:45] She used to have really, well, she still does have very bad period pains.

[00:20:49] And so bad, I thought, I'm just going to take it to the doctor because I will need to find

[00:20:53] out if there's a reason.

[00:20:54] She just said it's because she's young and she has periods and they'll get better.

[00:20:59] So I said, can we just find out if that's right?

[00:21:03] I'm happy if that's all it is.

[00:21:05] I don't want to waste anyone's time.

[00:21:07] But before we stick a band-aid on it, can we just have a look to see if that's all it

[00:21:10] is?

[00:21:11] So we did.

[00:21:12] It turns out she's got two cysts on her ovaries and that's why she had heavy periods.

[00:21:16] They weren't life-threatening cysts.

[00:21:18] It's quite normal, but we know we've got to keep an eye on it.

[00:21:21] And, you know, but it seems to be a lot, you hear this a lot, that women are hormonal.

[00:21:27] That's why they behave or that's why they feel like they do.

[00:21:29] And we never dig and find the actual reason for anything.

[00:21:33] No, we don't.

[00:21:33] And I think maybe because the NHS is under pressure, GP is under pressure.

[00:21:38] And a lot of time it is just, that's, it can be the reason, can't it?

[00:21:42] These things can be nothing and normal in inverted commas.

[00:21:46] But it seems to be the tale with most women.

[00:21:51] Claire, thank you so much for telling me all of that.

[00:21:54] Thank you for letting me tell my story.

[00:21:56] I wouldn't tell it to anyone else.

[00:22:00] Overlooked is written and produced by me, Golda Arthur.

[00:22:04] Jessica Martinez-Eos is our producer.

[00:22:06] We're building a community around women's health so that no one is overlooked.

[00:22:10] If you'd like to be part of it, sign up for the newsletter at overlookedpod.com.

[00:22:15] And you can get in touch with us by emailing hello at overlookedpod.com.

[00:22:21] What you hear and read on Overlooked is for general information purposes only

[00:22:25] and represents the opinions of the host and the guests.

[00:22:29] The content on the podcast and website should not be taken as medical advice.

[00:22:34] Every person's body is unique.

[00:22:36] So please consult your healthcare professional for any medical questions that may arise.

[00:22:41] Thanks for listening.